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Re:

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 19:29
by Snardbafulator
Snardbafulator>> The question that comes immediately to my loudmouth American mind, though, is that if I go through the trouble of posting links, why would I want people to ignore them?

dogsetc> Oh that's our way of being all self-effacing, feigning indifference, when we'd really like to have 'em by the lapels, veins bulging, screaming "listen-to-this-because-i-likes-it..." I suppose it's the same twisted manner that makes us say what a terribly nice day it is.

:lol: The expression that immediately came into my mind was "self-effacement beaten into your heads at an early age with a tire iron" (which is a marvelously sardonic and self-contradictory image), but I didn't dare write it in that context, because I didn't want it mistaken for some kind of smug-ass and sincere American attack on English culture -- which I personally happen to completely adore, including all the Kafkaesquely paradoxical bits ... Believe me, I'd trade all that American overdetermined self-certainty about everything for a little tentative English hyper-aware self-consciousness any day of the week. Except, if you don't mind, you can stick Tony Blair in that attic closet with Rudyard Kipling, "Gunga Din" or no "Gunga Din" ...

I mean, without all that reflexive self-effacement, whither the drop-dead humor of Evelyn Waugh (let alone Monty Python)?

Dave Stewart and Alan Gowen had a marvelously goofy musical routine which, in Stewart's words, celebrates the particularly uncomfortable variety of embarrassment that is English. In the first incarnation of National Health, Mont Campbell wrote a contrapuntal parody of classical forms called "Bourree," which, toward the end, modulates all over the place in a completely arbitrary and un-classical way. So Gowen and Stewart, at separate keyboards, stop dead in the middle of a run and exchange quizzical glances, wherein they start up again with a few more bars of even more atonal nonsense -- and Stewart then terminates the absurdity by flinging an ascending glissando in (well-rehearsed) exasperation. The crowd giggles and applauds, after which the CD (Missing Pieces) cuts into the final (studio) section of the thorougly un-ironic "Paracelsus ... "

Snardbafulator>> Right-clicking?

dogsetc> Right-click, Search Google (or whatever engine comes along first). It offers the option of myspace, YouTubes... i never know which is more useful, but it's less presumptious than a direct link, or more evasive.

Heh, I just post whatever it is I'm listening to (invariably from YouTube, since I'm a complete stranger to social networking sites) and, as dictated by my cultural heritage, go for it.

Snardbafulator>> Anyway, I've never heard of any of those folks

dogsetc> If we'd bothered with a Tell us Your Best Albums of 2010 thread they'd all have appeared on my list. There's an Avi Buffalo thread, and there's been discussion of Midlake here and there; they're Americans, as are Warpaint, and Tame Impala are Australian; Steve Mason was in the Beta Band. In fact it's been an exceptionally good year for an old git like me to discover brand new pop music.

Ok, My Favourite 2010 Albums:

—Midlake's 'Courage of Others' is a wonderful thing. I've seen them playing this set of songs twice this year, once very much not sober in many ways and they were mesmerising, and once like a judge and they were stunningly good. I'll be listening to this album, and the previous one (here's Roscoe) for years.
—The Avi Buffalo record is lovely. It's not like anything else that i'm familiar with, and they're about nineteen, which is ridiculous. Live, Avi the main lad is some guitarist. I predict great things for his future.
—Tame Impala make the only music i've heard that smells anything like Soft Machine Two.
—Much-hyped, because none of them look like the backs of buses i suppose, but i like the new Warpaint one 'The Fool' in the same way as the Impalas. It's new, but it's old etc.
—Steve Mason doing Am I Just A Man from his solo album. An intriguing performer now, and a cracking record.
—The Coral album 'Butterfly House' is not my favourite as it's got no ragged edges at all, but in this respect it's probably their best. It's one of this country's great mysteries to me that they seem to be taken completely for granted, almost as if they don't really exist.
—The Arch Garrison is the best Cardiacsy album (that includes Knifeworld, and the tribute i'm afraid).

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Okay, in my thoughtlessly presumptuous yet somehow guileless American way, I'm going to copy the un-responded part of this post and use it to start a Best Albums of 2010 thread where it belongs, on (the) Cardiacs Alike subboard. And as an added bonus, I won't even add my two cents to it. Or at least not before I've listened to these tunes, which is next up on the ol' agenda ...

Bob

Re: Any interest in a CD swap?

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 20:24
by schlep
Hm, yeah I see what you mean about Avi Buffalo's guitarings ("Remember Last Time" from their MySpace)! Glad to have my Indie Rockers Can't Do Guitar Solos claim well refuted...

Re: Any interest in a CD swap?

Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 02:52
by bellyeyed
ya im up for it,should be good for a laugh to see people murder your own expert? taste in music here.be warned though,i own a lot of shouty stuff :) il listen to anything once though.
cmon people dont be so goddamned lazy,its a good idea.back to the good old days of tape trading. as for copywright issues,dont think a few people trading cds will have metallicas lawyers knocking on our doors.

Re: Any interest in a CD swap?

Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 16:34
by Snardbafulator
bellyeyed wrote:ya im up for it,should be good for a laugh to see people murder your own expert? taste in music here.be warned though,i own a lot of shouty stuff :) il listen to anything once though.
cmon people dont be so goddamned lazy,its a good idea.back to the good old days of tape trading. as for copywright issues,dont think a few people trading cds will have metallicas lawyers knocking on our doors.


Oh no, I didn't mean a genuine legal hazard, more like an issue of personal conscience. Like for instance, who of us would take our freshly-bought Leader of the Starry Skies and stick it on YouTube? I don't think a one of us, because it would defeat the whole purpose ... And while that's because of our special feelings for Tim, it's also a general principle that some of us -- certainly not all -- might consider. The dif between this and cassette sharing (and I have five CDs of Allan Holdsworth a buddy burned for me, so I'm not any moral puritan here) is that once you have a CD copy, there's no extra-strong reason to go pay money for the music, which was never true in the cassette days.

But it's sort of like the Prisoner's Dilemma here, isn't it -- some of us are intrigued by the idea of CD trading but nobody wants to come forward and make the first move. I think the reason for this is that music is one of these really personal, ultimately-impossible-to-explain things and mutual clickage is never assured. I just listened to everything linked over on the 2010 albums thread and was strongly compelled by two things -- but everything else either left me indifferent or I actively disliked. And yet here I am, trying to get people to listen to my original music. I'm surely not going to waste everybody's time (yes, even me) explaining in a post why I didn't like the stuff I didn't like. That'd just be a bummer for the people who posted it and like it -- but I surely will rant about the stuff that I loved/liked/caught my interest.

Some people aspire to "like all kinds of music." I'm not one of them. While no genre in itself compels me to dislike something (Venetian Snares proved that one in spades), I'm pretty good at explaining what the things are that compel me in music and what things don't. And I can sound pretty insufferably objective about it ("sorry sir, there's just nothing there in that music you love so much"). Why should I subject somebody to that for the great crime of taking a precious smidgin of their time and effort to try to turn me on to some music they like? Because let me tell you, I'm not very good at being passive-aggressively silent about my musical opinions ...

There's a tiny handful of folks here that I'd consider trading CDs with, because they seem to share an appreciation of the things I personally like in music. But I don't feel particularly comfortable trumpeting that, because I'd come across as even more of a smug, above-the-masses elitist than my musical tastes and obsession with writing about music already (justly) cause me to.

If that makes any sense ...

Bob

Re: Any interest in a CD swap?

Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 23:13
by Giddy
Snardbafulator wrote:...The dif between this and cassette sharing (and I have five CDs of Allan Holdsworth a buddy burned for me, so I'm not any moral puritan here) is that once you have a CD copy, there's no extra-strong reason to go pay money for the music, which was never true in the cassette days.


I've participated in some CD swaps with posters on other music forums and, without fail, they've always introduced me to at least one band or artist on whom I've then splashed some hard-earned. Let's say you bite the bullet and participate in this swap of compilation CDs that I'm suggesting. And let's say that - against all odds - you hear a song on one of the CDs you receive that you really like. Are you seriously suggesting you'll leave it there, that you won't go and seek out some more music by that band / person? (Maybe you misunderstand what I'm suggesting goes onto each CD. It won't be 12 tracks by one artist but one track by each of a dozen (or whatever) different artists.)

Snardbafulator wrote:...There's a tiny handful of folks here that I'd consider trading CDs with, because they seem to share an appreciation of the things I personally like in music.


I think you're over-complicating this. Everybody on this forum has at least one common musical taste. If you and half a dozen others get involved in this (and I'm very grateful to those that have already stuck their hand in the air), I bet that it will introduce you to at least one band or musician or song that you'll add to your list of likes. Go on - prove me wrong (or, better still, prove me right!).

Finally, regarding some previous posts about CDs versus Spotify lists. Personally, I don't much like listening to music through my laptop; it's just not something I enjoy. Blank CDs are cheaper than the proverbial chips these days. You pick a dozen songs that you like; you burn them onto a CD and run off a few copies; you spend a couple of quid posting them; and then you receive wonderful packages of surprises through your own letterbox. What's not to like?

Let's give others until Wednesday to sign up. If there are enough, I'll then split us into groups of 4 or 5 or we can just all commit to sending everybody a CD. Thanks again to those that have opted in. And thanks too to you, Bob, and the others that have posted comments. I might not agree with your thoughts but it's been interesting to read them.

Giddy

Re: Any interest in a CD swap?

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 06:08
by Snardbafulator
Alright, Giddy, you made a couple good points. First, I wasn't really considering sampler CD's, and I think you're absolutely right that a sampler (rather than a CD's worth of a single artist) would pretty much moot any copyright issue for the reasons you suggest. And it could in fact salubriously counter it if people wind up buying stuff that they wouldn't have otherwise been exposed to.

I don't think anyone here's against the idea in principle, but there are still a few things that need to be addressed. First, sampling rate. It's not generally an issue when you burn conventional-length CD's made from single LP masters, but many people have the experience burning their own 70+ minute CDs that they sometimes don't work on some players past the 9th or 10th track. And there's no rhyme or reason to this; it's not to do with player quality, save for the fact that this appears more true for older gear (probably something to do with "oversampling rate"). Since nobody's running out the door anymore to buy the latest CD player because the technology's on the way out, people need to take this into consideration and make sure to use the highest (and most time-consuming) sampling rate when they burn the CD, else half their efforts might go to waste.

Mainly, though -- and please forgive me for this -- but there's something of the overzealous camp counselor to your approach here. Why Wednesday as the cutoff date? Why not Tuesday or Thursday -- or next weekend, for that matter? The activity here lately has been pretty understandably dead due to the holiday weekend. And furthermore, why should you get to decide who I make and receive CD's for/from? That makes no sense at all. I'm an unabashed progrock / math rock / RIO / Zeuhl freak with a fairly low tolerance for "ordinary" pop music, so my tastes are decidedly off-center from the modal Cardiacs fan -- which makes perfect sense if you think about it, because Cardiacs aren't an "official" progrock band, Tim hates labelling his music as such and the whole Cardiacs phenomenon has existed on a knife-edge between DIY punk and the more sophisticated formal elements (that many Cardiacs fans aren't bottomlessly fascinated by) Tim uses in his music. I'd do this in a heartbeat if I was posting on a prog board -- but I'm not. As in Rome, y'know?

As for overcomplicating things -- heh, check out my music. I've written tunes that change time signature literally every single bar (and a few of 'em are on YouTube if you don't believe me), so it's in my nature to overcomplicate everything. Nice try, though :mrgreen:

Bear in mind that we're already an active music-sharing community; that's what (the) Cardiacs Alike subboard is for. Sure, a YouTube or MySpace / Facebook link isn't a CD, but sharing music this way fulfills many of the same gimme a taste o' that functions you advocate for. And from Cardiacs Alike, we already have an idea of who among us shares our personal tastes because of the responses. Maybe there's a touch (heh) of sour grapes / sincere disappointment, because I've tried to start threads there of stuff I absolutely love (Screaming Headless Torsos, Blotted Science) that go unresponded and underviewed ::cry: but hey, I'm not really complaining. Once again, as in Rome ... But this has given me the names of about four people who range from strongly supportive to at least somewhat sympathetic to the stuff I'm trying to get people to, in the immortal words of Uncle Frank, experience the grandeur of. And I'm not going to name them here, because I have no desire to put them on the spot or issue them some sort of obligation they'd feel they'd have to live up to.

But would I share CD's with them? Yes. In a heartbeat.

Bob

Re: Any interest in a CD swap?

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:12
by Giddy
Snardbafulator wrote:...sampling rate. It's not generally an issue when you burn conventional-length CD's made from single LP masters, but many people have the experience burning their own 70+ minute CDs that they sometimes don't work on some players past the 9th or 10th track.


Sorry, Bob, I think you're still over-complicating this. I've yet to experience any problems like this in the other CD swaps I've participated in, and none of the other participants have mentioned this as a problem.

Snardbafulator wrote:Why Wednesday as the cutoff date? Why not Tuesday or Thursday -- or next weekend, for that matter? The activity here lately has been pretty understandably dead due to the holiday weekend. And furthermore, why should you get to decide who I make and receive CD's for/from? That makes no sense at all.


I suggested Wednesday precisely because of the holiday period, Bob! I guess most forummers will be back at work / college / whatever by then. You're right, it could be next weekend but I was hoping to keep some momentum. If latecomers want to participate, we can always organise another one. :)

Snardbafulator wrote:...my tastes are decidedly off-center from the modal Cardiacs fan...


I reckon the CD swap will challenge the very notion that there's such a thing as a "modal Cardiacs fan." Time will tell.

Snardbafulator wrote:And furthermore, why should you get to decide who I make and receive CD's for/from?


For no reason other than somebody's got to! If you or others want to pick and choose, that's fine with me.

You on board yet?

Re: Any interest in a CD swap?

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:05
by Trouserpress
Hey Bob, if you're really bothered about receiving a CD with nothing of interest to you I'll happily whip you up an RIO/Zeuhl/Canterbury-orientated one. I can't promise not to throw in a bit of obscure post-punk or the like, but I can guarantee the majority of it ought to pique your curiosity! :wink:

Re: Any interest in a CD swap?

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:08
by Giddy
Snardbafulator wrote:Bear in mind that we're already an active music-sharing community; that's what (the) Cardiacs Alike subboard is for.


I just realised I never acknowledged this in my earlier post. I've not spent much time on Cardiacs Alike subboard but will look to rectify that.

Re: Any interest in a CD swap?

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 14:39
by Snardbafulator
Snardbafulator>> ...sampling rate. It's not generally an issue when you burn conventional-length CD's made from single LP masters, but many people have the experience burning their own 70+ minute CDs that they sometimes don't work on some players past the 9th or 10th track.

Giddy> Sorry, Bob, I think you're still over-complicating this. I've yet to experience any problems like this in the other CD swaps I've participated in, and none of the other participants have mentioned this as a problem.

I'm glad of that, but you can't deny someone else's personal experience. In my house we have an Adcom 100-watt (RMS) high-current power amp that will shake the foundations, an Adcom preamp and an Adcom CD changer, all the same vintage (maybe 10-15 years old), all in their day high-end equipment. And it will not play the last third of my Holdsworth CDs, nor will my own CD player -- and I've heard tell of this from other people -- but the DVD player connected to the stereo has no problems with them. Certainly if people play their CDs on the sort of CD/DVD drives that are standard-issue in full-size laptops and desktops I can't see a problem regardless of sampling rate. But stand-alone CD players, especially of an older vintage, very well might, is all I'm saying. The problem could also be that the guy who burned them for me isn't much of a technophile and might've selected the lowest sampling rate simply because it was highlighted in the program. Just ... use a higher sampling rate, just to make sure in case your recipient has an older CD player, is my humbly-meant suggestion. Because CD players aren't like turntables; they don't often wear out and they're not the sort of equipment you get extra fidelity out of upgrading every few years.

Giddy> I suggested Wednesday precisely because of the holiday period, Bob! I guess most forummers will be back at work / college / whatever by then. You're right, it could be next weekend but I was hoping to keep some momentum. If latecomers want to participate, we can always organise another one. :)

My concern is that I don't think we have much momentum at all at the moment. By my count, we seem to have 3 positives, several adamant no's and an equal amount of fence-sitters (including yours truly) who might be persuaded. Unless you're getting tons of private mail enthusing about this, that doesn't look like much of a quorum as yet. I was thinking of the psychology behind the hard refusals and wondering if maybe there wasn't a sort of palace coup mentality at work here ...

Gubbins> I reckon the CD swap will challenge the very notion that there's such a thing as a "modal Cardiacs fan." Time will tell.

Well except that it won't, because the modality of any given sample is defined empirically :o

Snardbafulator>> And furthermore, why should you get to decide who I make and receive CD's for/from?

Giddy> For no reason other than somebody's got to! If you or others want to pick and choose, that's fine with me.

I really think that would be best, Giddy. I think it's more fitting with the culture of this board. Don't think with all of my progsnobbery that I somehow believe the "modal Cardiacs fan" is some kind of sheep. Far from it; every Cardiacs fan I've seen here (speaking of empirical definitions) has a cultivated, discerning taste (how else does one get into Cardiacs?) and I think we all are loathe to be spoon fed music we're "supposed" to like. I think advocating for a freely-chosen affinity group would go a long way towards battering down some of the initial hard resistance to this idea.

Giddy> You on board yet?

Bear in mind that I live in the States, so if you don't mind the postal rates ...

Bob

Re: Any interest in a CD swap?

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 15:19
by Snardbafulator
Trouserpress wrote:Hey Bob, if you're really bothered about receiving a CD with nothing of interest to you I'll happily whip you up an RIO/Zeuhl/Canterbury-orientated one. I can't promise not to throw in a bit of obscure post-punk or the like, but I can guarantee the majority of it ought to pique your curiosity! :wink:


Trouserpress! You outted yourself! :) Obviously, you were one of the four or so peeps I was thinking I wouldn't mind at all sharing music with. And of course, throw on whatever else you'd like, as that's obviously part of the point. Unfortunately, though, I don't have much music I could offer you in return, as you doubtless either own or have heard nearly all the stuff I do have. My vinyls are in storage, and on top of that most of my jazz and classical CD collection got stolen ::cry:

But hey ... I'll be happy to throw you a copy of my original CD (now playing on YouTube), including an extra-valuable one-of-a-kind hand-lettered track listing :shock:

Would that count?

Bob

Re: Any interest in a CD swap?

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 15:27
by bellyeyed
i for one anyway was only thinking of burning a compilation cd,standard size.its not about forcing your own taste on anyone,you dont have to like it.for me its just about being openminded,giving something that maybe you woudnt buy a chance to impress.i would be happy to receive one from you bob,[a song called snardbafulator has to be good :) ]im always on the lookout for new[or old]things.receiving a physical copy of a song has a hundred times more value for me than a link and would make me dig deeper a lot faster.

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 22:55
by dogsetc.
Snardbafulator wrote:I was thinking of the psychology behind the hard refusals and wondering if maybe there wasn't a sort of palace coup mentality at work here ...


Having felt at home here since i discovered Cardiacs i'm pretty certain that the regular posters are entirely without any proprietorial tendencies.

It's fine, there's plenty of room, i can budge up a bit. :bear:

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 05:00
by Made Of Worms
Hell, even the proprietors are entirely without proprietorial tendencies. :)

But damn, Bob, now you've made me think about the psychology behind wondering if maybe there wasn't a sort of palace coup mentality at work here. And then I wonder why I had to say that, ie: maybe there is, and we really are out to get you after all. Or maybe we can't be arsed with the CD swap, but we don't want to post nothing at all because that might seem aloof and ignorant, like the Queen maintaining a regal silence when Princess Die proposed a game of charades after Christmas dinner. I hope Giddy doesn't think too much like you do Bob. I hope he gets a decent CD swap going despite, or even because of, all the hard refusals.

Re:

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 07:31
by Snardbafulator
Made Of Worms wrote:Hell, even the proprietors are entirely without proprietorial tendencies. :)

But damn, Bob, now you've made me think about the psychology behind wondering if maybe there wasn't a sort of palace coup mentality at work here. And then I wonder why I had to say that, ie: maybe there is, and we really are out to get you after all. Or maybe we can't be arsed with the CD swap, but we don't want to post nothing at all because that might seem aloof and ignorant, like the Queen maintaining a regal silence when Princess Die proposed a game of charades after Christmas dinner. I hope Giddy doesn't think too much like you do Bob. I hope he gets a decent CD swap going despite, or even because of, all the hard refusals.


Christ on a crutch, Wormsie, I'm damn glad I put my joe down before I read that or I would have wrecked this here laptop and added to my already spiraled-out-of-control debt to society. This place has been so dead lately I've been reading old threads, even about irrelevant trivia like ancient server crashes and what you people call "football," and your posts invariably send me looking for a wad of TP or a previously-worn T-shirt if I happen to have the rotten luck of holding a beverage at the time.

I hope nobody wonders why I'm such a Thomas Pynchon and David Foster Wallace freak; they're the acknowledged poets of paranoia, of the infinite recursions of obsessive self-consciousness. Although I don't know why they need to gussy this up with a highfalutin' term like "postmodernism" when all you need to do, really, is spend a little time hanging out with English people ...

Bob