Kayo Dot

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Re: Kayo Dot

Postby Snardbafulator » Mon Oct 14, 2013 20:08

schlep wrote:Mr Snard, I am amazed - I thought this was a band that was lyrical and yet, so mind-bogglingly COMPLEX and difficult, to my poor ear anyway, that you would at least be partly on board. Oh well. Objectively horrible. :) Thanks for admirable restraint, before chiming in.

Apologies, schlepster. I've been procrastinating like a fiend about something all day, and my recent posts have been a little schizophrenic across the board. "Objectively horrible" was way out of line; apparently somebody or other liked it well enough to put it on the record, QED.
FOR THOSE SO INCLINED to take in this stoner hipster nonsense, I will wax on :The new album is their Sing To God, I think. 100 minutes of everything but the kitchen sink being thrown at you. It's meant to be an observance of KD's 10th year of existence, a summing up, incorporating the more metalloid approach of early Kayo Dot, along with the more loosely structured later stuff of Blue Lambency and Coyote.

Kayo Dot, judging by this thread, is obviously a band with a following and a back catalog, and the problem for me is those early links are all dead. Had I heard some of them and could sample a variety of their music, I'm sure that even if I didn't fall in love with them, I'd be "on board" with at least a couple tunes enough to see where y'all are coming from. As it is, I've only heard the two -- the first one you linked which I didn't like, but for other reasons. It was perfectly melodic (in fact, it gets stuck in my head), but I thought it was a little blase and Pink Floydish. The second one -- and this is not a perjorative -- is a more-or-less free noise jam.

A word about complexity: There's musical complexity and there's sonic complexity. Sonic complexity I've never been terribly interested in. Balls-out sonic complexity is Merzbow and Japanoise. In fact, the most sonically complex sound is white noise -- all the different possible waveforms happening at once. But the perceptual takeaway is ... white noise. Static. As our resident noise music fan Mr. Minnow will no doubt tell you, the most interesting noise is not necessarily the most sonically complex. Chaos jams have never been my plug of earwax.

Musical complexity is an entirely different matter. When you characterized the Arctopus as "non-musical," I had to demur because I think they're an extremely musical band, in the sense that all their notes are planned out in a unitary scheme. All the linear patterns (let's not call them melodies), rhythms, chords and dissonances create expectations in the mind which are then relentlessly sucker-punched as the band changes direction. And I love to be sucker-punched. That's my main aesthetic. It's why I love constantly changing time sigs. And that tune Thief didn't sucker-punch me. It did pretty much what I was expecting all the way through.
Toby Driver mostly plays bass (and sings) in this incarnation, the new guitarist is Ron Varod, he fills a big space on this album.
Amazing drummer, there are drum patterns here that I haven't heard before!

Since I was so churlish, shlep, I tell you what I'll do. Later on I'll visit their page and listen to a couple more tunes so at least I'll have a more fair representation of what they're about.

Bob
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Re: Kayo Dot

Postby schlep » Mon Oct 14, 2013 20:19

Here's another, less noisome, more chamber music-y aspect of what he does, Tartar Lamb
http://vimeo.com/18797493
When I read that Mr Driver attended Hampshire College it gave me pause, I admit!
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Re: Kayo Dot

Postby Snardbafulator » Mon Oct 14, 2013 20:55

schlep wrote:Here's another, less noisome, more chamber music-y aspect of what he does, Tartar Lamb
http://vimeo.com/18797493

Well, to be perfectly honest, he kind of lost me at the word "rubato." I'm interested in music that's tightly structured rhythmically. But I gave it a chance, wasn't much moved by it and then the interview format lost me altogether. If you're going to do a high-quality Vimeo vid of your chamber music composition, then play it from beginning to end. To intercut -- directly in the middle of a phrase -- to the composer going on about his feelings when he composes (really the most completely uninteresting thing any composer could talk about) makes the implicit statement that he doesn't regard the piece of music as an organic unity, just a bunch of sounds strung together. And if he doesn't care about it ... why should I? Why should anyone?

So I shut it down.

I'm still willing to listen to some more, though.
When I read that Mr Driver attended Hampshire College it gave me pause, I admit!

Yep. No surprises there :o

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Re: Kayo Dot

Postby schlep » Mon Oct 14, 2013 21:00

That was 'Roulette TV', I'm sure he didn't edit the piece.
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Re: Kayo Dot

Postby Snardbafulator » Mon Oct 14, 2013 21:05

schlep wrote:That was 'Roulette TV', I'm sure he didn't edit the piece.

Yeah, but he's the composer. Didn't he have final say?

I swear to gods, if I ever wrote a chamber piece, performed it and consented to do an interview about it and they butchered it like that, I'd have their asses in court.

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Re: Kayo Dot

Postby Mr Technique » Mon Oct 14, 2013 21:16

I think he did not have final say, Roulette TV has other videos edited the same way, I'm fairly certain there is no grounds to drag their asses to court, it is a fairly common practice.

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Re: Kayo Dot

Postby Snardbafulator » Mon Oct 14, 2013 21:25

Mr Technique wrote:I think he did not have final say, Roulette TV has other videos edited the same way, what's more I'm fairly certain there is no grounds to drag their asses to court, it is a fairly common practice.

You're right of course; I was being hyperbolic. Toby probably just saw it as publicity.

Still though ... if I knew the deal beforehand I wouldn't have consented to do the interview. The idea of the video becomes "hey wow, look I'm a composer." Which served everybody's purposes, I'm sure. Except the people who wanted to hear piece of music uninterrupted ...

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Re: Kayo Dot

Postby Mr Technique » Mon Oct 14, 2013 21:29

Sampling a few other videos, the only one I found so far that separates performance and interview is a Chris Cutler improv, otherwise, people like Anthony Braxton, Evan Parker, Mary Halvorson, etc. all get cut to pieces.

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Re: Kayo Dot

Postby Snardbafulator » Mon Oct 14, 2013 22:20

Mr Technique wrote:Sampling a few other videos, the only one I found so far that separates performance and interview is a Chris Cutler improv, otherwise, people like Anthony Braxton, Evan Parker, Mary Halvorson, etc. all get cut to pieces.

Just another reason to dislike Vimeo, I guess. The initial one was how heavily monetized it is, with the ads they make you sit through.

Speaking of Cutler, I just got two copyright strikes on my YouTube account from uploading a couple of TPlague tunes. Ouch. I sort of suspected that would happen, but now I'm about to go email MoeTar and ask if I should pull the three of theirs I uploaded as well, only because they're on an American label. I'm not worried about Farmers Market because those labels are German and Scandinavian, and their notions of fair use are a little looser over there ...

What freaks me out about this is that some labels truly don't care (like Ipecac) while others are anal-retentive about it (like Cuneiform), and there's no real way to tell the difference.

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Re: Kayo Dot

Postby schlep » Mon Oct 14, 2013 22:55

http://kayodot.bandcamp.com/
is the place where you can hear most of their output - except for the current one, three tracks only so far.
Including the cruelly truncated by internet journalists Tartar Lamb II piece.

Good luck to you.

ps You may find your time more profitably spent listening to Kavus and Steve Davis' Interesting Alternative Show, from 5pm (now) until 7, est
http://www.phoenixfm.com/listen-live/
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Re: Kayo Dot

Postby Snardbafulator » Tue Oct 15, 2013 09:43

schlep wrote:http://kayodot.bandcamp.com/
is the place where you can hear most of their output - except for the current one, three tracks only so far.

Thank you schlep. I'll make sure to peruse, and before I respond I'll also make sure to throw the snarkmonster a couple of pungent YouTube thread haterz to keep him distracted ...

I have a couple things on my plate. I still have to get to that Dr. Nerve Mr. Tech linked. And I also just got back an email from my math jazz idol Esra Dalfidan, she of the most adorable Anatolian cheekbones in the entire world, let alone Anatolia, who told me I could upload both her albums on YouTube, so I'm in the lengthy process of making videos. And then, of course, I have to grovel to Cuneiform Records and beg them to get YouTube to clear my record.
Including the cruelly truncated by internet journalists Tartar Lamb II piece.

I'd use the word "obnoxiously." Nothing like making a composer of an attention-sucking avant-garde chamber piece look like a charter member of Generation Whatever.
Good luck to you.

You're supposed to use an exclamation point and sound all enthusiastic and hopeful, the way I did on the Arctopus thread, not like it's an encounter with a team of IRS auditors when you don't even believe I'm not a tax cheat. "Hey ... good luck with that."
ps You may find your time more profitably spent listening to Kavus and Steve Davis' Interesting Alternative Show, from 5pm (now) until 7, est
http://www.phoenixfm.com/listen-live/

Thanks for the link. I don't normally do podcasts, but I'm not "normal," either, so what the hell. It would depend, of course, on what they mean by "alternative," but I'll try to remember to give it a checkout tomorrow if I'm not otherwise occupied then, at least to see ...

Bob
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Re: Kayo Dot

Postby Snardbafulator » Wed Oct 16, 2013 15:41

To schlep:

Well, I listened to all of Gamma Knife. I don't know ... my first impression was, are they deliberately crippling the sound quality as an inducement to buying the files or CDs? Because it all seemed very muddy. The second tune might be something approaching "black metal," although I'm not sure, not having listened to any of the classic Nordic stuff. Definitely not death metal without the very specific death metal guitar sound. It seemed more "experimental" or avant-garde than progressive, more concerned with textures than notes. They obviously were working with Gregorian chant on the first tune, though.

The general impression is that it's a very gothic vibe.

Overall, it was a bit chaotic for me. Very very different than Koenji Hyakkei, another band that can aim for bombastic gothiness (and sometimes miss the mark), but they work more with structure. I think it's the lack of definitive structure that's causing me the problem here.

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Re: Kayo Dot

Postby schlep » Wed Oct 16, 2013 17:22

Gamma Knife is my least favorite, for the sound quality. Indeed it does sound chaotic and not fully formed!

Try 'Choirs of the Eye' or 'Coyote' - the latter described by some pundit as a 'metal album with no guitars'...
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Re: Kayo Dot

Postby Snardbafulator » Thu Oct 17, 2013 17:26

schlep wrote:Try 'Choirs of the Eye' or 'Coyote' - the latter described by some pundit as a 'metal album with no guitars'...

I listened to all (or all of the five tracks they had available) of Choirs of the Eye. I dunno, schlep, I'm really trying not to be a jerk about this and give these guys a chance but they don't seem to work for me at all. It seems to be this odd, schizophrenic cross between very amateurish, ambient quiet sections with offhandedly strummed guitars and balls-out noise rock. I wouldn't call it metal because in metal there are very clear interactions between the guitars and drums. There were one or two sections like that, but they were extremely short and led nowhere. Plus, the metal guitar sound comes from guitars and amps designed for it, rather than regular guitars run through a fuzzbox at maximum gain. There was a moment in the second track which shifted into some sort of avant prog ballad, with a defined metrical scheme, accented phrases and a vocal melody and I thought ... okay then, let's see where this leads. And it led to more noise chords just crashing over it. As for chords, on the acoustic they were either very ordinary or if they were strange, they didn't interact with other chords in a functional way. Strange chords but no real chord progressions. There'd be fleeting passages of violins or a sax, but not anything sustained enough to amount to musical development. Sigh ...

I tried, schlep, I honestly did. Maybe I'll give Coyote a checkout and then call it a day if nothing happens for me ...

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Re: Kayo Dot

Postby Snardbafulator » Fri Oct 18, 2013 21:08

I'm listening to Abyss Hinge 2: The Shrinking Armature from Coyote.

I'm getting this one finally ... I'll have to listen to the whole album again.

Further updates as we proceed.

Bob
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