Rank Cardiacs members by historical importance

Moderator: The Alternate Consultant

seventies
Diamond Cardiac
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 23:06

Rank Cardiacs members by historical importance

Postby seventies » Wed Mar 20, 2013 19:38

I think I am still too much of a newbie to try such a thing, but who would like to attempt to rank all past Cardiacs band members by importance?

If I was to do such a thing, I’d use the following criteria:

- How long were they a member of the band?
- How many live shows did they participate in?
- How many official recordings to they feature on?
- Did they write songs or provide lead or backup vocals?
- What instrument did they play and how talented were they at it?

the last one is quite subjective because lead guitar is typically considered most important while the “rythym section” is sometimes, but not always, considered more replaceable, then in addition Cardiacs have had horns, keyboards, and synthesizers over the years, which are more “auxiliary” or “extras” but to some may be absolutely critical or central to Cardiacs sound, in which case some may choose to completely ignore the last category.

All I can say is that Tim is obviously #1, and Bill Drake is likely #2. Maybe Jim is #3 just due to longevity? Maybe Jon gets a bit of a boost for “peak value” because he composed a few songs which previously only Tim did? But beyond that, I’m not too certain. I just listen to the music; I haven’t paid much attention to the history and who’s on which albums.

shiroihage
Silver Cardiac
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 14:39

Re: Rank Cardiacs members by historical importance

Postby shiroihage » Thu Mar 21, 2013 14:49

I got into Cardiacs just after Sarah and Tim Quy left. The first gig I saw was at New Cross with a five-piece of Tim, Jim, Bill, Dominic and Bic. It was Bill's last or penultimate gig and everyone already knew he was leaving. I was gutted he was leaving as I saw the keyboards as the main instrument of the band. Err...not sure where I'm going with this, but I always thought Cardiacs sadly lost something after those guys left. Jon and Kavus are brilliant but for me Cardiacs is always that six/seven piece.

User avatar
Myndforest
Bronze Cardiac
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 01:20
Location: LONDON

Re: Rank Cardiacs members by historical importance

Postby Myndforest » Sat Mar 23, 2013 14:43

For me the 'classic' line-up is the one including Dominic Luckman, William D Drake & Sarah Smith... I don't think it was ever the same without them as full time members... The sum of the parts greater than the whole and all that... IMO opinion I would say that Tim Smith is/was the most important member of Cardiacs! There I've said it! Well that's my view and I'm sticking to it.
Leaving early - just before the hour - a few minutes won't make any difference, not to me anyway... the early bird catches the worm.
I don't really want to go in tomorrow - the man will tell me off for leaving early yesterday...

User avatar
Myndforest
Bronze Cardiac
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 01:20
Location: LONDON

Re: Rank Cardiacs members by historical importance

Postby Myndforest » Sat Mar 23, 2013 14:45

Oh yeah and Tim Q! Oops! - The line up on the Big Ship Cover...
Leaving early - just before the hour - a few minutes won't make any difference, not to me anyway... the early bird catches the worm.
I don't really want to go in tomorrow - the man will tell me off for leaving early yesterday...

seventies
Diamond Cardiac
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 23:06

Re: Rank Cardiacs members by historical importance

Postby seventies » Tue Mar 26, 2013 21:36

Myndforest wrote:IMO opinion I would say that Tim Smith is/was the most important member of Cardiacs! There I've said it! Well that's my view and I'm sticking to it.


I assume you're being funny... because Tim is obviously the most important member of Cardiacs; he was almost always the sole creative force behind the band from what I can tell.

That said, I think part of the reason this band was so musically dynamic was the contributions of other members - they were not just replaceable session musicians.

User avatar
Myndforest
Bronze Cardiac
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 01:20
Location: LONDON

Re: Rank Cardiacs members by historical importance

Postby Myndforest » Tue Mar 26, 2013 22:10

Yes I was being funny (or trying to)... The original line up will always be the best (IMO) and I always wondered how Dominic Luckman (for example) could ever be 'replaced' as the music is so complex and they were so tight live... but there are always musician fans that aim to learn exactly what their 'heroes' are playing and often it is the case that they are the ones that step in from the sidelines and already know half the stuff... All members of Cardiacs are therefore very important - just by the very fact that they are able to play this stuff at all!!! As I've said though I did prefer the fuller sound with Tim Q and William D Drake and Sarah Smith and I think something was lost (IMO) when the line up changed and reduced and started using tapes live. Still amazing stuff though that no-one else has ever come near and probably never will.
Leaving early - just before the hour - a few minutes won't make any difference, not to me anyway... the early bird catches the worm.
I don't really want to go in tomorrow - the man will tell me off for leaving early yesterday...

seventies
Diamond Cardiac
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 23:06

Re: Rank Cardiacs members by historical importance

Postby seventies » Tue Mar 26, 2013 22:12

OK, I'm going to give this a shot, please let me know how close I am. Hopefully some more experienced fans will correct me where I am mistaken

1. Tim Smith (the creative force of the band)
2. Bill Drake (he was on the majority of the best albums and provided essential keyboard work and background vocals, plus some composition - I also think he might be the most talented at his respective instrument of anyone else who has played with the band)
3. Jon Poole (13 years, 3 albums, guitar, vocals, also somewhat of a creative force in the band)
4. Jim Smith (although "just" the bass player, he is this high by sheer longevity and by also providing background vocals)
5. Tim Quy (10 years of synth & percussion, the former being especially important to the classic sound)
6. Sarah Smith (similar to Drake & Quy, for 9 years provided saxophone which is essential to the band's "classic" sound, less overall influence however)
7. Dominic Luckman (10 years drums)
8. Bob Leith (14 years on drums; however, not on as many recordings - or essential recordings - as Luckman)
9. Colvin Mayers (4 years on keyboards)
10. Mark Cawthra (3 years on drums and keyboards)
11. Kavus Torabi (5 years on guitar)
12. Michael Pugh (sang for 3 years, proved replaceable)
13. Bic Hayes (2 years on guitar)
14. Graham Simmons (1 year on guitar but stuck around as sound engineer)
15-19. Melanie Woods, Cathy Harabaras, Claire Lemmon, Peter Tagg, Sharron Fortnam (2-4 years in small roles)
20-23. Jo Spratley, Dawn Staple, Ralph Cade, Marguerite Johnson (spent about 1 year or one album in a decent sized role like sax or vocals, or 3 years as a percussionist
24. Steve Gilchrist (drummer for one tour)


what do you think? The proverbial classic lineup all made the top 7 with Jon being the lone interloper, which I think is fair.

User avatar
prowler
Diamond Cardiac
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:30
Location: bucharest
Contact:

Re: Rank Cardiacs members by historical importance

Postby prowler » Wed Apr 10, 2013 19:08

seventies wrote:5. Tim Quy (10 years of synth & percussion, the former being especially important to the classic sound)

hmm I thought he mainly did percussion? can you point out some examples of his synth work?

i would put the two drummers a bit higher. also Kavus and Bic.

seventies
Diamond Cardiac
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 23:06

Re: Rank Cardiacs members by historical importance

Postby seventies » Wed Apr 10, 2013 19:41

prowler wrote:
seventies wrote:5. Tim Quy (10 years of synth & percussion, the former being especially important to the classic sound)

hmm I thought he mainly did percussion? can you point out some examples of his synth work?

i would put the two drummers a bit higher. also Kavus and Bic.


Actually, I'm just going by Wikipedia on that, so it's likely that you're right and I'm not.

User avatar
spanstick
Gold Cardiac
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 08:40

Re: Rank Cardiacs members by historical importance

Postby spanstick » Wed Jul 24, 2013 20:31

seventies wrote:
prowler wrote:
seventies wrote:5. Tim Quy (10 years of synth & percussion, the former being especially important to the classic sound)

hmm I thought he mainly did percussion? can you point out some examples of his synth work?

i would put the two drummers a bit higher. also Kavus and Bic.


Actually, I'm just going by Wikipedia on that, so it's likely that you're right and I'm not.


He's depicted on the back of Cardiacs Live playing a chord on the synth whilst the confetti is going off, so probably can be heard on live recordings bulking out the keys on those grandiose moments at least.

User avatar
Stoneage Dinosaurs
"Jim parades a toy"
Posts: 2459
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 09:30
Location: Sweden

Re: Rank Cardiacs members by historical importance

Postby Stoneage Dinosaurs » Tue Oct 29, 2013 16:20

1. Tim Smith
2. Jim Smith
3. Bill Drake
4. Dominic Luckman
5. Tim Quy
6. Sarah Smith
7. Kavus Torabi
8. Bob Leith
9. Mark Cawthra
10. Jon Poole
11. Colvin Mayers
12. Bic Hayes
13-18. Melanie Woods, Cathy Harabaras, Claire Lemmon, Peter Tagg, Sharron Fortnam
19-22. Jo Spratley, Dawn Staple, Ralph Cade, Marguerite Johnson
23. Steve Gilchrist
24.Graham Simmons
25. Michael Pugh


Return to “Albums”