How to own everything? (ethically, quickly, cheaply)

Moderator: The Alternate Consultant

seventies
Diamond Cardiac
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 23:06

How to own everything? (ethically, quickly, cheaply)

Postby seventies » Sat May 05, 2012 22:43

Please see here for my intro as I'm new here.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3425

This is a topic that will ultimately span multiple sections of this board, but I think this is the most appropriate place for it.

Basically, I'm obsessed. I want everything Cardiacs have done, plus side projects too. I prefer not to download from itunes, because I've never been a fan of just "paying for files" - I like having tangible CDs that I can take with me and listen to in the car, etc (yeah, I know I can do that with burned CDs too, let's just say I prefer the real thing, call me weird or a control freak if you like, i won't be offended)

I'm not an "obsessive collector" though. I collect with a purpose. I don't buy vinyl because I can't play it and it's not convenient (yes, I know it's cooler and aurally superior). I don't buy singles that contain nothing exclusive. But show me a release with even one exclusive track, and I want it.

In this case, with Cardiacs having such a diverse catalog (multi format, multi label, multiple singles, multiple versions of tracks on multiple releases) I am willing to make exceptions to my personal rules, and I won't lie and say it's not painful.

Please help me out. Practically every release has a question associated with it. This can be a great release for future noobs. I'm not going to be the last person to get Cardiacs under their skin.

Having done a bunch of my own research, here is what I've determined:

Absolutely Essential Cardiacs Studio Material:

- Archive Cardiacs (it is the only way to get most of the early cassette songs on CD)
- Songs for Ships and Irons (mid-career compilation)
- ALMAAHATWWW (looks like I have to get the Torso version if I want Goosegash and IEIB on CD?)
- On Land and In the Sea (again, looks like I need the Torso version)
- The Seaside (looks like I'd have to download the 4 tracks that went missing between the cassette & CD releases?)
- Heaven Born and Ever Bright
- Sing To God
- Guns

Practically Essential:

- Rude Bootleg
- Cardiacs Live
- All that Glitters is a Mares Nest
- The Special Garage Concerts Vol I
- The Special Garage Concerts Vol II

With all ABC releases, my biggest concern is that some CDs that say "currently out of stock" might actually be out of stock when the store finally gets up and running again, and they won't press any more. I would like to think that all 20 releases on the Merchandise page over at ABC are all discs that I will be able to buy when the store reopens. But is that the case?

Key Members Side Projects:

- Sea Nymphs (this is listed in the store, will it actually be available when the store reopens? the fact that it's not on itunes scares me)
- Sea Nymphs appealing to Venus single (don't know how easy this is to get. if it's hard or impossible, would someone like to send me the one B-side?)
- OceanLandWorld (again, will this one be available for purchase? at least it's on itunes)
- Spratley's Japs Pony album (if the AME site still actually has them, who knows the answer to this?)
- Spratley's Japs Hazel single (see above)
- Mr and Mrs. Smith and Mr. Drake (see above)
- William D Drake S/T album (see above - and I saw this go for over $200 on ebay so if I can't get this from AME I'm probably SOL)
- William D Drake Briny Hooves (still haven't determined quite how rare this is but I have heard it and like it. I want to own if possible)
- William D Drake Yew's Paw (again, not sure how rare it is but at least it's on itunes, I have sampled and quite like it)
- William D Drake Rising Of the Lights (I think I will be able to get this one cheaply on ebay this week)

Singles:

- Signs (sure, I'd get this one at the ABC if they actually have it, but not at ebay prices. If this isn't available, who can share the B-sides with me?)
- Odd Even (see above)
- Manhoo (I just bought this one! woot!)
- Day Is Gone (it has multiple exclusive tracks, correct me if I'm wrong, unfortunately this is prohibitely expensive on eBay and I probably need to rely on you lot for mp3s)
- Ditzy Scene (again, multiple exclusive tracks, and was released just 5 years ago, I would actually pay what this sold for on eBay, then again, if someone just sent me the songs since the disc is no longer available for purchase, I might break my personal rule here...)

Other members' Side Projects:

- Monsoon Bassoon I Dig Your Groove (I love what I've heard, this can apparently sell on ebay for $29 and $147 just a day apart, so I like my odds here, looks like I just have to be patient)
- Redbus Noface (already ordered!)
- Knifeworld album (already ordered!)
- Knifeworld EP (already ordered!)
- Various Artists, The Central Element (already ordered!, looks awesome, all exclusive songs)

Beyond that:

- Leader Of the Starry Skies (I really want Tim to get my money for this CD but I have no choice but to go to eBay as I insist on owning an actual CD version of the bonus disc. I'll have to make sure they get my money in a handful of other ways)
- Cardiacs and Affectionate Friends (I see this as a must-purchase. For one thing, the CD is not THAT rare and overpriced. Also, if I own all of the above, it still gets me exclusive tracks by mikrokosmos, mark cawthra, jon poole, catherine in a cupboard and lake of puppies)

Other:

- Greatest Hits (looks like I can live without this one considering the ebay prices, and I suspect it's not actually available from ABC since they didn't put it on itunes. I have already downloaded the exclusive track. Can anyone confirm there are no "alternate versions" or anything like that, that may entice me to buy this one?)
- Sampler (I think that if I have all the above, this is useless to me, right?)

With any of the above, the ultimate goal is to own the actual CD. Further to that, the ultimate goal is to buy it straight from the band. Costs me less, and they get my money. Plus it's brand new. The only thing is I can't wait forever to make Cardiacs a bigger part of my life, and the store could take 5 more years to reopen, or never reopen. Even though I have a friend whose mum is close with Tim and insists the store will be up soon, I am too compelled to own these discs right away. I'm going to try to win the whole lot on ebay tomorrow.

For anything that is actually not available on CD and/or has become prohibitively expensive, I would be willing to burn myself a nice copy of it (I will definitely BUY whatever I can on itunes and use those tracks to do the burn) and then rely on a board member to send me scans of the covers so that I could print them out on nice glossy paper and at least pretend I own the real thing. Anyone willing to do that for me? (I'm thinking particularly about Sea Nymphs, Mr. and Mrs Smith, Spratley's Japs, WDD's first three albums and possibly even all 5 Cardiacs live albums)

For any singles (which I imagine are all out of print) considering the cost associated with rounding them all up, I would consider just downloading the songs if someone has them to share. I actually just need the tracks from Signs, Day is Gone, and Ditzy Scene.

For old tracks that are only available on cassettes or LPs that I'll never own, I would really appreciate if someone could share all those, just to get me caught up with the rest of you. (I would probably make myself a nice CD-R of those tracks and the b-sides and call it Archive Cardiacs II)

Anything else you think I would want? One thing I thought of is if anyone has all the stuff by Monsoon Bassoon, if they could share the non-album stuff because they had a bunch of EPs and a couple of splits, all of which I'd be missing out on if I just bought the one proper album. The other stuff would take a lifetime to track down and most of it is not on CD.

I know I'm asking a lot here. I'm hoping that the combined wisdom of all the experts can set me on the right path. And hopefully within the next day. Because you could save me from paying ebay prices if you can convince me that these CDs will be available soon from ABC.

psparky27

Re: How to own everything? (ethically, quickly, cheaply)

Postby psparky27 » Sun May 06, 2012 13:28

Wow .Not sure where to start with all that lot. Its is very very tough starting out with your "collection".

E-bay does have a few gems for £10 every now and then from a specific e-bay shop who always sells Archive, greatest hits,seaside at this price.

Most people on here don't have everything and we all have little gaps here and there but downloads are good to get those rare and live tracks.

I would give up on trying to get up on anything Torso or day is gone single unless you wish to sell everything you have.

I watch e-bay quite closely and i think the prices are falling slightly but you can never tell.

Maybe your best option is to concentrate on the era you like and get the CD's for time and see how you get on.

seventies
Diamond Cardiac
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 23:06

Re: How to own everything? (ethically, quickly, cheaply)

Postby seventies » Sun May 06, 2012 17:47

I had a feeling that was the case with the Torso versions.

I guess it's ok to ask, then, if someone can share the Torso bonus tracks from ALMAAHATWWW & On Land and In the Sea... and the A-side of Suzannah's Still Alive, and A Bus for a Bus On the Bus.

seventies
Diamond Cardiac
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 23:06

Re: How to own everything? (ethically, quickly, cheaply)

Postby seventies » Mon May 07, 2012 05:18

Ugh, I just won a bunch of stuff on eBay. I spent a lot more than I would have liked to, but a lot less than I could have if I had worse timing. It makes me sick to think I spent so much and none of it is going to the band. But apparently not as sick as it would make me to not have these CDs.

I think I've come to terms with the fact that b-sides are just too expensive to track down; the per-exclusive-song price is through the roof.

Updated wantlist, for those who are interested in following my odyssey:

Got'em:

- Sing To God
- Songs for Ships and Irons
- On Land and In the Sea
- Heaven Born and Ever Bright
- Guns
- Rude Bootleg
- Sea Nymphs
- ALMAAHATWWW
- All that Glitters is a Mares Nest
- The Seaside
- William D Drake: S/T
- William D Drake: Rising of the Lights
- William D Drake: Yew's Paw
- William D Drake: Briny Hooves
- Manhoo single
- Ditzy Scene Single
- Redbus Noface
- Knifeworld album
- Knifeworld EP
- North Sea Radio Orchestra: S/T
- North Sea Radio Orchestra: I a Moon
- North Sea Radio Orchestra: Birds
- Spratley's Japs: Pony
- Various Artists: The Central Element
- Leader Of the Starry Skies & A Loyal Companion
- Cardiacs and Affectionate Friends
- Cardiacs Live
- Archive Cardiacs
- Shrubbies: Memphis in Texas
- Stars In Battledress: Secrets and Signals
- Monsoon Bassoon: I Dig Your Voodoo
- Oceanlandworld (sort of)


all in all, a good but expensive weekend!

I must own them on CD someday no matter what it takes:

- LIST COMPLETED!

If the Shop doesn't open soon or they don't show up reasonably affordable on ebay soon I would consider buying on itunes and getting scans of the covers to pretend I have the real thing, rather than waiting any longer: (who would send me scans?? I would even send a screenshot proving I purchased them all so you know you're not participating in thievery)

- The Special Garage Concerts Vol I
- The Special Garage Concerts Vol II

Same as above, except these aren't even on itunes and if they don't pop up affordably on eBay I might have to resort to sharing and hope someone will share the covers as well:

- Spratley's Japs: Hazel
Last edited by seventies on Wed Jul 18, 2012 00:57, edited 16 times in total.

User avatar
Greyhound
Cardiacs Expert
Posts: 805
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 16:21
Location: Up North
Contact:

Re: How to own everything? (ethically, quickly, cheaply)

Postby Greyhound » Mon May 07, 2012 12:04

I'll throw these onto the table:
A Bus for the Bus on the Bus
Susannah's Still Alive
Signs B-sides
Day Is Gone B-sides

http://www.sendspace.com/file/6qut9c

Also, sorry to be a boring pedant but the Monsoon Bassoon album is actually called I Dig Your Voodoo :) ...and very good it is too. It's supposed to be getting a re-release but it does come up on eBay more often than you would think.

EDIT: Oh and congratulations on your purchases!

User avatar
brother abnego
"To log off and things"
Posts: 2371
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:28
Location: bristol/somerset nexus
Contact:

Postby brother abnego » Mon May 07, 2012 12:25

Having read through your list'o'wants I have a few thoughts:

The extra tracks on the Torso version of ALMAAHATWWW are all available on "Songs For Ships and Irons", apart from Goosegash and I'm Eating in Bed which were "Is This the Life" single B-sides. "I'm Eating in Bed" is on all subsequent reissues of ALMAAHATWWW, and Goosegash can be found here.

I'm pretty sure the extra tracks on the Torso release of OLAITS are just duplicates of songs that appear earlier on the same CD, with the exception of Tarred and Feathered which, like the extra tracks on ALMAAHATWWW, can be found on "Songs For Ships and Irons".

It's worth trying to get hold of the earlier Rough Trade release of HBAEB, as the mastering on the 1995 re-release is a little on the heavy-handed side, discussed in this thread here.

I'd strongly recommend you seek out the two Garage Concerts CDs; great recordings of a great line-up, setlist almost exclusively from the cassette album era, great between song banter, thunderous adrenaline rush from beginning to end. In my humble opinion, these are the definitive versions of the early songs.

Garage Concert rehearsals:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxhuQWKwbqY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5QYijFfOaQ

There's video of the Garage Concerts available at the Consultant's archive here. It's the file called "Cardiacs Mish Mash". A copy exists with audio from the Garage Concerts CDs, discussed on the last few pages of this thread. The other live vids in the Consultant's archive are worth a look too.

...and at some point you need to get hold of the VHS>DVD transfer of the Mare's Nest live Video. Maybe one of the US forum fishies can get a copy to you.


ETA

Greyhound wrote:I'll throw these onto the table:
A Bus for the Bus on the Bus
Susannah's Still Alive
Signs B-sides
Day Is Gone B-sides


I think me and Greyhound are overlapping a little with our fishy bounty, but too much is better than not enough :)

psparky27

Re: How to own everything? (ethically, quickly, cheaply)

Postby psparky27 » Mon May 07, 2012 12:58

I agree with all above except maybe the torso recording of "on land" although the are pretty similar the intro to one of the songs sounds like it was done in a toilet and the chimes is also different to any other version.

You must get the garage concerts and Mr and mrs smith and mr Drake as essentials.

Good to see our list growing. What are your views on the very early stuff of Toyworld and the obvious identity? I have these burned onto a cd kindly taken from the pond as the cassette versions are very rare and also likely to break if bought if played constantly!

seventies
Diamond Cardiac
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 23:06

Re: How to own everything? (ethically, quickly, cheaply)

Postby seventies » Mon May 07, 2012 15:54

Greyhound wrote:I'll throw these onto the table:
A Bus for the Bus on the Bus
Susannah's Still Alive
Signs B-sides
Day Is Gone B-sides

http://www.sendspace.com/file/6qut9c

Also, sorry to be a boring pedant but the Monsoon Bassoon album is actually called I Dig Your Voodoo :) ...and very good it is too. It's supposed to be getting a re-release but it does come up on eBay more often than you would think.

EDIT: Oh and congratulations on your purchases!


Thank you immensely. And, not sure how I got that title wrong!

seventies
Diamond Cardiac
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 23:06

Re:

Postby seventies » Mon May 07, 2012 16:10

brother abnego wrote:Having read through your list'o'wants I have a few thoughts:

The extra tracks on the Torso version of ALMAAHATWWW are all available on "Songs For Ships and Irons", apart from Goosegash and I'm Eating in Bed which were "Is This the Life" single B-sides. "I'm Eating in Bed" is on all subsequent reissues of ALMAAHATWWW, and Goosegash can be found here.


Correct. My research indicated that Goosegash was the only exclusive song among the ALMAAHATWWW Torso bonus tracks, which made that release nonessential. I already had Goosegash; it looks like whoever it was who sent me a "Cardiacs Booster Pack" a few months ago sent me the Torso version.

I'm pretty sure the extra tracks on the Torso release of OLAITS are just duplicates of songs that appear earlier on the same CD, with the exception of Tarred and Feathered which, like the extra tracks on ALMAAHATWWW, can be found on "Songs For Ships and Irons".


Literally, as in the same CD? That would be kinda silly...

just checked Wikipedia. OK, WTF? What was the point of having 5 bonus tracks that are duplicates? I was 99% sure you had to be mistaken but you apparently aren't.

I honestly never bothered to look too hard at the tracklisting, I assumed (reasonably, I think) that the bonus tracks would not just be duplicates. I actually checked the tracklistings of other releases, to see where those tracks originated, and eventually learned that they were the BHD B-sides which doesn't have a detailed wiki entry, so it made sense.

Has anyone talked about why Torso would do that? That's a conversation I'd like to read!

I'd strongly recommend you seek out the two Garage Concerts CDs; great recordings of a great line-up, setlist almost exclusively from the cassette album era, great between song banter, thunderous adrenaline rush from beginning to end. In my humble opinion, these are the definitive versions of the early songs.

Garage Concert rehearsals:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxhuQWKwbqY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5QYijFfOaQ

There's video of the Garage Concerts available at the Consultant's archive here. It's the file called "Cardiacs Mish Mash". A copy exists with audio from the Garage Concerts CDs, discussed on the last few pages of this thread. The other live vids in the Consultant's archive are worth a look too.


Oh, I know... I have read the threads on this album, and I’ve sampled most songs on itunes. They sound absolutely incredible. Perhaps the most essential live album that I know of, considering they are full of old songs whose studio versions mostly exist only in old analog formats.

I do badly want these albums; it’s just a question of whether I wait for ebay, wait for the ABC store, or cave in and do itunes.

...and at some point you need to get hold of the VHS>DVD transfer of the Mare's Nest live Video. Maybe one of the US forum fishies can get a copy to you.


That would be awesome.

seventies
Diamond Cardiac
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 23:06

Re: How to own everything? (ethically, quickly, cheaply)

Postby seventies » Mon May 07, 2012 16:16

psparky27 wrote:I agree with all above except maybe the torso recording of "on land" although the are pretty similar the intro to one of the songs sounds like it was done in a toilet and the chimes is also different to any other version.

You must get the garage concerts and Mr and mrs smith and mr Drake as essentials.


Yeah, I do see them as absolute essentials; I think I'm just mentally preparing for what may be a reality - that I may never own the actual CDs.

eBay watchers - have these ever come up? What did they sell for? I personally haven't seen them.

With the MAMSAMD CD, it's a little trickier, because it MIGHT be available from AME, or it might not. I could wait for that store to go online again, and let a couple slip by on eBay in the meantime, and then find out that the AME store doesn't actually have anymore.

Good to see our list growing. What are your views on the very early stuff of Toyworld and the obvious identity? I have these burned onto a cd kindly taken from the pond as the cassette versions are very rare and also likely to break if bought if played constantly!


I downloaded them yesterday and am going to be listening to them today! Sound quality is pretty decent compared to most cassette-sourced mp3s I've heard. Honestly what I really look forward to is hearing those songs in the Garage concerts.

User avatar
brother abnego
"To log off and things"
Posts: 2371
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:28
Location: bristol/somerset nexus
Contact:

Postby brother abnego » Mon May 07, 2012 16:27

seventies wrote:
brother abnego wrote:I'm pretty sure the extra tracks on the Torso release of OLAITS are just duplicates of songs that appear earlier on the same CD, with the exception of Tarred and Feathered which, like the extra tracks on ALMAAHATWWW, can be found on "Songs For Ships and Irons".


Literally, as in the same CD? That would be kinda silly...

just checked Wikipedia. OK, WTF? What was the point of having 5 bonus tracks that are duplicates? I was 99% sure you had to be mistaken but you apparently aren't.

I honestly never bothered to look too hard at the tracklisting, I assumed (reasonably, I think) that the bonus tracks would not just be duplicates. I actually checked the tracklistings of other releases, to see where those tracks originated, and eventually learned that they were the BHD B-sides which doesn't have a detailed wiki entry, so it made sense.

Has anyone talked about why Torso would do that? That's a conversation I'd like to read!


It is a bit odd. As psparky says above, there appears to be a couple of small differences, but they're not different recordings, possibly slightly different edits maybe?

There's a thread here on the subject, but there's no definitive answer it seems...

Spyda
Diamond Cardiac
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 14:40
Location: Kingston Upon Thames

Re: How to own everything? (ethically, quickly, cheaply)

Postby Spyda » Mon May 07, 2012 16:30

seventies wrote:With the MAMSAMD CD, it's a little trickier, because it MIGHT be available from AME, or it might not. I could wait for that store to go online again, and let a couple slip by on eBay in the meantime, and then find out that the AME store doesn't actually have anymore.


I have emailed AME a few times over the last couple of years about this and Spratleys etc, but never had a reply. I have 6 of the MAMSAMD tracks but would love to complete.

A few bits and bobs turn up on Amazon from time to time too. Briny Hooves was on there for £20 recently for example
And if she only had stopped making that hissing noise . . .

seventies
Diamond Cardiac
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 23:06

Re: How to own everything? (ethically, quickly, cheaply)

Postby seventies » Mon May 07, 2012 16:46

Spyda wrote:
seventies wrote:With the MAMSAMD CD, it's a little trickier, because it MIGHT be available from AME, or it might not. I could wait for that store to go online again, and let a couple slip by on eBay in the meantime, and then find out that the AME store doesn't actually have anymore.


I have emailed AME a few times over the last couple of years about this and Spratleys etc, but never had a reply. I have 6 of the MAMSAMD tracks but would love to complete.

A few bits and bobs turn up on Amazon from time to time too. Briny Hooves was on there for £20 recently for example


Since joining this board I've been told that AME is suffering the same fate as ABC thanks to Tim's condition, as the two are affiliated.

The hardest part is not knowing if the discs are actually there to be sold once the store(s) is/are back up.

not sure blowing my cover is the best idea, but there are 9 days left and anyone interested would find it in that time. There's a promo copy of Briny Hooves on eBay that I'm hoping to nab. There was one that was up to $40 but then the seller decided to keep it.

User avatar
brother abnego
"To log off and things"
Posts: 2371
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:28
Location: bristol/somerset nexus
Contact:

Postby brother abnego » Mon May 07, 2012 17:38

At the risk of causing further damage to your finances, I'd also recommend the following related bands:

Firstly, The Shrubbies. They were Sarah Smith, Craig Fortnum, Sharron Saddington (now Fortnum) and Dom Luckman, and they released one album, a lovely slice of pastoral pop called "Memphis in Texas". Produced by Tim Smith, who also provides handclaps.

It's available now and then on ebay and amazon, and they have a bandcamp page where you can buy the digital download (any format from mp3 through to lossless)


Craig and Sharron went on to lead the North Sea Radio Orchestra ensemble, who include Bill Drake, Kavus Torabi and Melanie Woods in their lineup. Several albums, all well worth checking out.

Trivia - Sharron does vocals on several tracks on "Guns" here she is sharing lead vocals with Timmy on Will Bleed Amen.

Here's them on youtube, video by that Tim Smith.




Sidi Bou Said and Stars in Battledress also spring to mind as worth a look/listen...

seventies
Diamond Cardiac
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 23:06

Re:

Postby seventies » Mon May 07, 2012 17:59

brother abnego wrote:At the risk of causing further damage to your finances, I'd also recommend the following related bands:

Firstly, The Shrubbies. They were Sarah Smith, Craig Fortnum, Sharron Saddington (now Fortnum) and Dom Luckman, and they released one album, a lovely slice of pastoral pop called "Memphis in Texas". Produced by Tim Smith, who also provides handclaps.

It's available now and then on ebay and amazon, and they have a bandcamp page where you can buy the digital download (any format from mp3 through to lossless)


Craig and Sharron went on to lead the North Sea Radio Orchestra ensemble, who include Bill Drake, Kavus Torabi and Melanie Woods in their lineup. Several albums, all well worth checking out.

Trivia - Sharron does vocals on several tracks on "Guns" here she is sharing lead vocals with Timmy on Will Bleed Amen.

Here's them on youtube, video by that Tim Smith.




Sidi Bou Said and Stars in Battledress also spring to mind as worth a look/listen...


Funny, as you were posting this I was already in the process of sampling and ordering NSRO’s first and third albums. Birds is apparently hard to find. If anyone can direct me to a copy, that would be appreciated. But I went 6 pages deep into a google search. :(

I really like what I’m hearing from Shrubbies too. How much is it when it comes up “now and then” on ebay and amazon, if you remember? (it wouldn’t be the end of the world if I just downloaded this one from bandcamp)

You guys are killing my finances…


Return to “Albums”