Underated tracks

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Batesy
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Postby Batesy » Thu Dec 20, 2007 16:54

Stoneage Dinosaurs wrote:
TheMelodramaticMonkey wrote:I played The Final Cut last night as it happens and it was much better than I remenber it being. Better than The Wall to my ears at least


Completely agree, I listened to it just last week and love it. It proves that one should use one's own ears to decide on music rather than listen to critics who in this case have, over the years, consistently slagged off The Final Cut - unjustifiably in my book. [/quote]

Nicely said Stoneage - I know what you mean. I get fed up being 'told' by critics what albums are 'classic' and what aren't.

For example, it makes me feel genuinely very sad that William Drake's 'Briny Hooves' won't be making Mojo's (for e.g.) Albums of the Year list - it's got the word 'classic' stamped all over it.

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Postby TheMelodramaticMonkey » Thu Dec 20, 2007 21:50

For example, it makes me feel genuinely very sad that William Drake's 'Briny Hooves' won't be making Mojo's (for e.g.) Albums of the Year list - it's got the word 'classic' stamped all over it.


I think in years to come it will be considered a "lost classic" and people will be amazed they overlooked it. And then oh how we can laugh.

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Postby schlep » Thu Dec 20, 2007 22:35

TheMelodramaticMonkey wrote:
For example, it makes me feel genuinely very sad that William Drake's 'Briny Hooves' won't be making Mojo's (for e.g.) Albums of the Year list - it's got the word 'classic' stamped all over it.


I think in years to come it will be considered a "lost classic" and people will be amazed they overlooked it. And then oh how we can laugh.


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Postby dedokras » Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:10

Stoneage Dinosaurs wrote:
I did so a while ago with Pink Floyd & it's very refreshing listening to an hour's worth of Pink Floyd that doesn't include anything from their BIG FIVE (Piper, Meddle, Dark Side, Wish You Were Here and The Wall) This comp I did almost sounds like a new album

There are some real forgotten gems to be found on Saucerful, Ummagumma, Obscured By Clouds, More, Atom Heart Mother, Animals, Works and on the much maligned but surprisingly very good Final Cut.
Momentary Lapse and Division Bell while good, I mean I like them but they just don't fit the mould in my opinion with the rest of their albums. Because for me it's quite simple no Roger, no Floyd!


Agree with every single word, only I would actually include Animals in the big 5 (or 6)

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Postby schlep » Wed Dec 26, 2007 20:45

I had the very pleasant experience of listening to "On Land and in the Sea" with headphones yesterday, "The Stench of Honey" sort of jumped out and surprised me - just another jewel among many on that album.
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Postby Ady » Thu Mar 13, 2008 22:15

been playing Cardiacs B sides stuff-which i've had put on a CD, for some reason i seem to have gotten into bigtime "faster than snakes with a ball on a chain" and "no brightside" love um :D

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Postby SOAP BOB UP WOO! » Thu Mar 13, 2008 22:22

these are both fine b-sides ady, mmmmm very fine.

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Postby montoid » Fri Mar 14, 2008 00:36

I think it's called "wireless" off 'sing to god', makes my feet tingle everytime . . :)

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Postby psparky27 » Fri Mar 14, 2008 02:24

montoid wrote:I think it's called "wireless" off 'sing to god', makes my feet tingle everytime . . :)


Me too...that scissors sound just gets me everytime :)

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Postby Gubbins » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:52

The chord sequence on the piano for the "Black dog, white dress" bit is fantastic. I love how relentlessly creepy that song is. And the incredible string section at the very end followed by Tim going "HAHAAA!"

Brilliant.

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Re: Underated tracks

Postby bellyeyed » Fri Sep 24, 2010 20:57

i would have to say spell with a shell,core,everything is easy. all the bsides-ideal,spinney,sang all away away etc [they should've just released em all as an album] prob the most underrated of all is eat it up worms hero.that little gem got eclipsed by the brilliance of dirty boy and fiery gun hand .it often gets the repeat treatment on the stereo
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Re:

Postby princess_stomper » Fri Oct 15, 2010 22:49

TheMelodramaticMonkey wrote:I played The Final Cut last night as it happens and it was much better than I remenber it being. Better than The Wall to my ears at least
[/quote]
Wow - I've never actually heard The Final Cut because I thought it was a "don't bother" album. Perhaps I should check it out.

I certainly love a lot of Pink Floyd's other albums.

As for underrated Cardiacs tracks, I'm pretty sure that all my favourites are obvious, although I don't hear people mention Hope Day very often and I absolutely love that song.

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Re: Underated tracks

Postby Snardbafulator » Tue Nov 09, 2010 21:27

Okay, here's at least one tune from all the albums I know:

The Seaside: "A Wooden Fish on Wheels." I like the ska here even better than everybody's fave "In a City Lining." The mode shifts in the 8th-note sax chorus over a minor VI VII I cadence suggest to me Genesis' "Selling England by the Pound." Helps that both are in 7, too (7 on the floor vs 3+3+3+3+2). Agree with everyone about "Hope Day" and will note that it took me longer than most on that record (heh, a weekend) to fully get into "It's a Lovely Day"; quoting the lyrics of "Wild Thing" over a pogo-ing tritone is about as subversive as it gets, honoring our influences-wise ...

A Little Man, A House & The WWW: Of course "Victory Egg" is a sleeper because, though the lyrics are fantastic and it's a serious earworm -- the whole tune is only a single folk riff. Have to give a shout-out (along with everybody) to "I'm Eating in Bed" -- a song as well-structured as "Buds and Spawn," with a different route from chorus to "middle 8" (heh) each time. But my nominee for undersung is "The Breakfast Line." As a song It's a little scattered until that deliriously demented whole-tone jig of an outchorus. What are semitone movements doing in that melody, anyway?

Songs For Ships & Irons: That's a truly tough one, because everything on that record is standout in its own way. So I'll punt and simply mention the one tune everybody forgot: "All Spectacular." Those two decending guitar chords in the verse remind us all once again that Tim Smith has one of, if not the, most tastily imaginative harmonic vocabular(ies) in rock music.
Another deliciously unexpected shift from a major/mixolydian area to a minor/phrygian one ...

On Land and in the Sea: Another tough one, because this was my first favorite Cardiacs disc. I'll resist the temptation to talk up the rarely-mentioned "Leader of the Starry Skies" because that's one of the very few Cardiacs tunes I don't particularly like. Instead, I'll risk redundancy and throw my support to "The Stench of Honey." Anyone else notice how the 12/8 sax-guitar riff after the first verse bears a striking resemblance in overall feel to the 12/8 violin-guitar riff before the first verse of Gentle Giant's "Mister Class and Quality?" from Three Friends?

Heaven Born and Ever Bright: Personally, I love "Core" to death -- its only flaw is that it needs another section (or two or three). That strobing 9/4 synth riff almost singlehandedly redeems the whole notion of club music. But since that one has already been mentioned, I'll throw my support here to "Bodysbad." The sax/guitar/drum breaks in the verses are not only mind-numbingly tight -- but they're one of the few moments anywhere on disc where Cardiacs get a little ... erm ... funky :) And who can't love a slammin' 19-on-the-floor second chorus which quotes ("Cherish is the word I use to describe ... ") David Cassidy of the Partridge Family? :):):)

Sing to God, Pts I & II: So much of those discs are so good (and this post is getting so long) that I'll combine them, squint hard and think ... it's all been mentioned, hasn't it? How could "Manhoo" or "Bellyeye" -- let alone "Insect Hooves" or "Dog-Like Sparky" -- be considered "underrated" songs? And the easy marks -- "A Horses' Tail," "Bell Clinks" -- have already been taken I think. I'd have to at least give honorable mention to "Eat 'Em Up Worms Hero," just for the Schoenbergian near-atonality of the chord progression at the end (and I have to give props to the critic who called "Dirty Boy" in truth a vast Mahler choral symphonic movement masquerading as a rock song). Okay, lemme be all sentimental and conventional and nominate the deceptively straightforward "Flap Off You Beak" whether it's been mentioned or not, just because the middle 8 is one of the most glorious moments in music anywhere. When the key changes and it starts syncopating in 3s up to "... the famous London fog / There is no God ... " oh my goodness -- I just completely melt/cream at the chords and choice of melody notes.

Guns: I will stand with Tim and at least one other critic and call Guns a genuine progression forward and one of their finest albums. As an archetypically underrated tune, though, I'd have to nominate "Come Back Clammy Lammy"; the relentlessly slamming 5-on-the-floor android dance beat drove my cousin bats the other day ("What are you listening to? Is that punk rock? It's horrible!"), and honestly, at first, you're wondering where the structure is. Transpositions (not even bona-fide modulatory key changes) at verse and chorus points -- is that it? Is that sax riff going to develop or just keep going daaa ... dat dat da dat da the whole song? But man, what an earworm it becomes if you let it! When I finally got the tune I became Pavlov's poster boy playing that damn thing over and over and over. The 5/8 chord changes syncopated over 5/4 is the first thing I noticed. Then, the sharply articulated vocal quickness of "World War One / the Somme / stinky bum / great big bomb" And after the first key change ... my gods, what's up with Tim's voice? He's singing through a ... harmonizer? And what's he doing bending notes like that, at that speed? This melisma off the written pitches isn't remotely "blue-eyed soul" ... more like ... good grief, Jon Anderson on a combination of crystal meth and salvia divinorum ...

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Re: Underated tracks

Postby schlep » Tue Nov 09, 2010 21:49

[quote="Snardbafulato] And who can't love a slammin' 19-on-the-floor second chorus which quotes ("Cherish is the word I use to describe ... ") David Cassidy of the Partridge Family? :):):)
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Re: Underated tracks

Postby Snardbafulator » Tue Nov 09, 2010 21:55

Top graf, my previous post: Meant to say Genesis' "The Battle of Epping Forest" fromSelling England by the Pound. The title track of that album doesn't suggest anything in particular by Cardiacs.

Speaking of early Genesis, for the sake of making this post only slightly less useless and self-indulgent (nods to schlep :)) than a correction, I can't resist noting that the intensely dissonant, non-diatonic chord progression in the Mellotron/organ outchorus of "Return of the Giant Hogweed" from Nursery Cryme seems to have served as some kind of template for the development of an important aspect of Tim Smith's harmonic language. Anyone else notice resemblances to the staccato chord sections of "The Duck and Roger the Horse" and "A Horse's Tail," not to mention other strikingly dissonant/out of mode chordal movements all throughout Cardiacs music?

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