Guns

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Sterbus
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Re: Guns

Postby Sterbus » Mon Mar 07, 2011 15:35

Dino64 wrote:Also, I'd forgotten what a great song 'I Want to Tell You' is. Thanks for that reminder monsieur!


De rien, mon ami :) and by the way, I totally agree with you. I use to write songs, and those kind of progressions are something that sometime you want to try a) because you used to appreciate them as a listener and b) like a challenge, you think "well, let's see what I can do with this cliché" :D and see what happens... it's almost the same progression as Day is gone... probably Tim does it for some other reason (or even no reason at all) but the results are always good.
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Re: Guns

Postby Dino64 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 15:47

Ah yes, Day is Gone. Now there's a song that gives me chills! Yep, there's that progression again. A thing of beauty it is.

The whole thing about playing music, for me anyway, is to absorb all of your influences, and make them sound like you.

My drumming influences (Neil Peart, Levon Helm, Buddy Rich, Bernard Purdey to name a few) are many and varied. Incorporating those styles is the challenge I faced/face constantly, and if I ever had someone after a gig, or listening to a recording, say to me, "how did you do that?" or "you sounded great up there," that would be a real reward for me. It always humbles me.

I'm not a successful musician financially, never have been, but to touch people at any level is the greatest feeling a musician can have in my humble opinion. :)

chaffinch
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Re: Guns

Postby chaffinch » Thu Mar 24, 2011 01:26

I'm a very recent Cardiacs convert and 'Guns' is one of the albums I've found my self listening to the most. I love it from start to finish, but the coda to Jitterbug absolutely floored me the first time I heard it; it's like the soundtrack to a partially remembered dream and the absolute epitome of music that 'makes your tummy go funny'.

Why is 'Guns' often regarded as not being 'quite up there' with the other albums?

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Re: Guns

Postby bellyeyed » Thu Mar 24, 2011 02:05

Dino64 wrote: but to touch people at any level is the greatest feeling a musician can have in my humble opinion. :)


that must have landed you in trouble a few times :D
nothing wrong with guns in my opinion,some killer tracks that id put on any mixcd,signs,wind and rains,sleep all eyes,cry wet,good cud,in fact i dont think theres a bad song on it.maybe it doesnt run as smoothly as the others and there seems to be a different sound production wise[as with em all] i think the major problem with it is it wasnt sing to god 2
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Re: Guns

Postby schlep » Thu Mar 24, 2011 02:37

I've often wondered if the relative unpopularity doesn't have something to do with Guns' crazy old movie American frontier jargon in the lyrics - it veers away from that bred in the bone Englishness of the earlier work. It is a bit weird.
It's the first album I got really immersed in, I love it to bits forever.
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snowman
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Re: Guns

Postby snowman » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:48

Chaffinch and Schlep - I wholeheartedly agree with you re: your Guns praise - yes, I was also floored by the Jitterbug coda - the whole album is flawless - inventive and energetic throughout; the best Cardiacs album to date.

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Re: Guns

Postby eadric » Thu Mar 24, 2011 13:24

I don't think there's many bad songs on it, but Guns is a bit meh for me. One or two great tracks, but it sorts of drift by. Production is a bit swampy, but I love the lyrics.

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Sterbus
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Re: Guns

Postby Sterbus » Thu Mar 24, 2011 13:41

chaffinch wrote:Why is 'Guns' often regarded as not being 'quite up there' with the other albums?


I understand you. I discovered Cardiacs only in 2006 and my favorites are Sing to God, the Garage Concerts and Guns... I'm 31, and Iprobably like more the 90-00's kind of sound, those distortions, the heavy drums.... but Cardiacs became something big and epic very long before, so there's no surprise to me that most of people born in the early sixties found the first years of the band as THE REAL THING.... It happens all the time... :D

(Obviously some of them are illuminated and agree that Sing to God is a masterpiece, just like I agree that On land and in the sea is a great great album too :wink: )

Maybe it's a matter of nostalgia?
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Made Of Worms
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Postby Made Of Worms » Thu Mar 24, 2011 14:46

My Cardiacs inductor didn't rate Guns for five years or more, while I thought it was fab and groovy and like a less OTT Sing To God 3*. When questioned, he only made vague noises about it sounding like revisited ideas to him. Recently whenever I see him he wants me to know he gets it now. Yes, I think it's only natural that those who were really there in the mid-late eighties had quite a lot asked of them to adjust to the new way, but I still don't understand the ones who love StG and turn their nose up at Guns.

*After my second listen that is. My first listen was in the car, I couldn't wait to get it home, but listening to brand new Cardiacs with all the bass drowned out by road noise is not recommended. It was just a load of shrill senselessness. Not as shrill as Sing To God mind, which I don't think necessarily makes a thing 'swampy', Sing To God could honestly do with a dB or two less shrillness at 2.5 kHz or so.

(A friend who witnessed my descent into gibbering StG fandom, and was fair blown away by it himself, later heard me playing OLAITS and asked if it was a new album, so.)

I reckon it's not what you said schlep, because nobody knows what the bloke's on about anyway :) I certainly didn't even notice the amount of Americana until it was pointed out here with all the Night Of The Hunter doo-dah.

Ah, I see I already said all that on page 5. Thought so.

chaffinch
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Re: Guns

Postby chaffinch » Thu Mar 24, 2011 15:32

Sterbus wrote:
Maybe it's a matter of nostalgia?


That could partly explain it. I can understand those who've been there from the beginning perhaps have a bigger emotional response to the early albums, the 'classic lineup'. It's all new to me and I've been taking in the entire ouvre almost simultaneously. So, for me, every album starts on a level playing field. I pretty much love everything, but Guns, STG & OLAOTS are what I return to most...so far.

Re lyrics. I have to admit to not really getting in to all that as yet...at the moment it's all about the noise they make.

Re the 'swampy' sound on Guns. I don't get this - to me the production is crystal clear, deep, just beautiful. I think worst production has to be HBAEB - it sounds like it's coming out of a cheap transistor radio to me, really tinny, bass barely audible. What were they thinking?

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Postby Made Of Worms » Thu Mar 24, 2011 16:42

chaffinch wrote:What were they thinking?

Answers here:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=772
Including Timmmy's version of events on page 3. :)


Also includes some moaning about Guns lacking Fiery dynamics, which is kinda true innit.


Also includes me saying the exact same thing about Abade as I repeated the other day. Consistent I suppose.This is why I'm posting less, I've evidently said every single thing I think about Cardiacs, if you can call it thinking.

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snowman
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Re: Guns

Postby snowman » Thu Mar 24, 2011 16:57

But Guns is exquisitely produced when compared with StG!

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Re: Guns

Postby drterror666 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 17:11

I never got the whole Guns being Cardiacs-lite thing. I mean, the band has developed over the years and they had to overcome the loss of the classic members. Tim could have called it a day if he wanted to (and he was thinking about it), but he didn't and now we have what we have.

I love everything they've ever done (well, nearly everything) and think that every Cardiacs era is brilliant.
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What did you just say then?
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chaffinch
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Re:

Postby chaffinch » Thu Mar 24, 2011 18:46

Made Of Worms wrote:
chaffinch wrote:What were they thinking?

Answers here:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=772
Including Timmmy's version of events on page 3. :)


Also includes some moaning about Guns lacking Fiery dynamics, which is kinda true innit.


Also includes me saying the exact same thing about Abade as I repeated the other day. Consistent I suppose.This is why I'm posting less, I've evidently said every single thing I think about Cardiacs, if you can call it thinking.

Ah, thanks for that. I've got a few other questions that've no doubt been covered before, will use the search button next time.

I suppose Guns is a mite subdued compared to what had gone before, and just not what people were expecting after STG?

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Made Of Worms
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Postby Made Of Worms » Thu Mar 24, 2011 22:17

chaffinch wrote:will use the search button next time

Nae bother, the Search function's rarely any help since frosty lost all the index down a ditch.